Neutral to Net Zero – Understanding what Sustainability Means to your Travel Program

Speaker 1 00:00:04 Hi, and welcome to this episode of your window seat, where we at travel, Inc. Discuss the topics that you care about most ever-changing business travel industry. I'm Tracy Carrillo, your host for today's topic, neutral to net zero. Understanding what sustainability means to your travel program of all the buzzwords and latest topics that enter the corporate travel narrative. Sustainability should not be one that is a passing fad. In fact, how we all approach carbon emissions within our tribal programs will dictate the future of not only business travel, but the future of our environment. And quite honestly, our planet, we recently had the pleasure of moderating a fireside chat hosted by the Georgia chapter of the global business travel association. Today, we bring you an extended podcast featuring our special guest Helen Hodgkinson industry expert and consultant with Vesta road, as well as the co-founder of cactus, a climate action group for corporate travel. So Helen let's get started and tell us a little bit about what was behind you and your co-founders drive to start cactus. And what does it mean? Speaker 2 00:01:19 Thank you, Tracy. And thank you for having me here today. So, um, captains, as you say, um, is a kind of action group for corporate travel and we formed it back in 2019, along with some industry colleagues, because at the time, um, corporate travel was on a completely unstoppable upward trajectory, and we felt that there was limited content on conference agendas around addressing the real urgency around what we need to achieve between now and 2050, this headline dates when we need to get to net zero. And it was a really difficult conversation to have because it was quite uncomfortable to suggest to our travel industry, but in order to be more sustainable, maybe we'd have to do less. So that was already an uncomfortable conversation and we decided to form captors, which is completely voluntary. It doesn't have any commercial drivers, um, it's open to anybody within the corporate travel industry, um, and very much aims to sort of, um, base the dialogue, you know, in, in the science and the data. Speaker 2 00:02:25 Um, uh, and one of the reasons we decided it was best just to be sort of a voluntary non-blacks group is to have some of those uncomfortable conversations. So obviously the name, you know, um, cactus, uh, also represents a rubber particularly, um, subject as well. And that's very much, you know, what we felt we needed to do to have those uncomfortable conversations. And of course we set it up in 2019 travel was that, you know, we were at the hype travel and then we will hit with the COVID pandemic. So now we find ourselves in the completely opposite position where, um, there's a complete cessation of travel and interest in back conversation. And it's great to see the sustainability is right at the top of the corporate agenda now, but it's still quite an uncomfortable conversation to have because, you know, we want our industry to survive and people will need to travel, but we need to be really careful about the conversation we have and what travel, you know, we start to put back into our programs. Speaker 3 00:03:18 I was just thinking that one of the elements on your website, there is no planet B. Um, and I love that, you know, a little play on a plan a and plan B, but there is no planet B. So that, that prickly component to cactus, let's talk about what your personal challenges are from the corporate travel environment or in the paradigm of the corporate travel environment. Speaker 2 00:03:40 Yeah. So I think, um, some of the concerns, um, w we had, was being, we wanted to take a, this sort of macro view of what was going on. So it's, it's quite natural, you know, in any industry you find yourself in, whether we're talking about corporate travel today, or the more specific industry that you're doing, you know, you're managing, um, travel on behalf of, you know, um, we all have, um, you know, a role to play in sustainability, but we really wanted to take that macro view and help people understand some of the science that sits behind what we're trying to achieve and then start to drop down into where travel fits in. So, um, rather than either starting right at the bottom or right at the top, um, it's, it's useful to understand, you know, the carbon emission reductions that we've got to achieve and then where corporate travel fits into that process. So, for example, not for example, but, um, you, you, you made you aware of the different scopes of, um, emissions reporting that exists, which is scope one, two and three. Um, and it's under scope three category reporting, the corporate travel fits. So it's helping people to understand, um, that that is an area of influence that they really could have control over and help them understand that that can help that, that will assist with your overall goals from a corporate objective perspective, but also in terms of what we're trying to achieve globally. Speaker 3 00:05:05 Awesome. And that scope three is something we're going to dive into a little bit in a few minutes, and I kind of want to lay a bit of a groundwork greenhouse gases, right? So what is all of this, right? So greenhouse gases, you know, traps, you know, the heat and makes the planet warmer. Right. Pretty simple. But I think the point here that we really are focusing on is that it's the actions of us as individuals and as a global society, that's making that impact so dramatic that the increase, I think I read that was 29% was out of transportation. Twenty-five percent of the increase in greenhouse gases where electricity and transportation of course is beyond just the airline. It's automotive, it's cruise it's rail, but let's stay with that individual component. You know, why is what I do matter individually? And what does that impact and what are your concerns about that? We need to get our heads in the right place as individuals so that we can then impact change more broadly. Speaker 2 00:06:00 Yeah. Okay. So first of all, you want, you know, um, greenhouse gas, greenhouse gases, uh, do all the planet and we need a certain amount of greenhouse gases in order for us to survive and to sort of exist at the B two more temperature rating, but we have been existing to act until now, but the problem is now that we've got this surplus of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, and it was actually, um, a, uh, an American scientist, Charles Keeling, who first started measuring or cot back in the 1960s, and actually attributed back, you know, the activities of humans through industries, transportation, that first really brought it to everybody's attention that this was having a negative effect on, um, the climate and global warming and, uh, things that started to be measured in the sixties. We've just seen this continual upward, upward trajectory of CO2 in the atmosphere. Speaker 2 00:06:49 So today it's fast that sits around 413 parts per million, and this is known as the Keeling curve. So, um, when you, when you look at that graph, it's just only suffered trends. So, um, yes, we, we, we do need a certain amount of greenhouse gases, but we're completely out of kilter now. Um, and you're absolutely right. Um, you know, um, transportation and energy account for significant amounts of those emissions and aviation or in our travel sector accounts for around 2%. And a lot of people will say, well, actually, you know, it's not that big, is it, you know, in terms of some of the other areas that we could affect, uh, that we could affect change in, but the reality is, is a very carbon intensive industry. And therefore we need to be looking at what we can be doing, um, in order to, um, minimize our impact. Speaker 2 00:07:40 Again, it comes back to what's within our control. I think every different steps of that you look at, um, whether that's manufacturing, automotive, um, agriculture, every lead you lift, um, uh, the more you get into this conversation, the more you realize, gosh, there's a lot of activity to be done in every different sector. Um, but yeah, we need to, um, make sure that we are, um, significantly, um, reducing our emissions in order to get to this net zero position, um, in 2050. And, and to put that into perspective, um, there's, uh, you know, a lots of research that has been released and particularly the IPC, uh, the intergovernmental panel on climate change papers, you know, that they are stating that we really need to have global emissions by 20, 30 half. And again, by 2040 in order to get to this net zero position by 2050. So we do have a lot of work to do in order to change our activities. Speaker 3 00:08:39 So let's talk a little bit about what the industry is doing, right? So we've, we've all heard a great deal about the airlines and alternatives to fossil fuels and these sustainable aviation fuels are, um, which are like staffs, I think, is the term form now yet acronym for the wonderful world of, uh, corporate travel. Um, can you talk to me a little bit about, you know, this sounds great, right. We have the sustainable aviation fuels that are coming in. What does that mean? W you know, why are the airlines investing so heavily into this and, and what does that mean to us in the industry? Speaker 2 00:09:12 Yeah, so, um, sustainable aviation fuel is a really important part of our efforts to decarbonize a, to decarbonize the aviation sector. Um, and, you know, w we w you know, we all have to champion every positive effort that's been made. I think some of the concerns, um, around staff is the scalability or staff. So, um, currently, um, I believe that SAF accounts for about 0.1% of, um, aviation jet fuel. Um, and there are, um, while there's a lot of interest that's coming behind SAC and a lot more in, in interest for investment in staff and therefore generating more and more demand, but we still need to be careful about, um, where that sits within your overall conversation and how, what percentage of jet fuel that is going to be profitable to be replaced by. Um, and I think quite often when I talk about this, I think, well, you know, in order to create more safe, um, you know, it might impact other areas in terms of, um, London availability, deforestation, but actually what's up even more and more. Speaker 2 00:10:21 I've been investigating this, and it was on a website, uh, with sky energy the other day, where they actually stated that. And I'll just read this out here, but in order for, um, sustainable feedstock, you know, to be credible, it has to meet three requirements. And one is, um, first higher value applications such as living food production and high conservation areas should not to be displaced at the second is the side effects of staff missiles. So be far less negative than the usage of fossil fuel. And third is finally food security environment, and biodiversity cannot be sacrificed and preferably should even be enhanced. So I want to keep that balanced view around staff, but I certainly, from a cactus perspective, we want to make sure that he's always in perspective, because we don't want to be sort of loaded into this false sense of security that actually we can continue what we've been doing, because SAS is going to solve that problem. When actually one of the key drivers is some behavioral change in there. We do need to change how we're traveling and how much we traveling. Speaker 3 00:11:22 Yeah. So, I mean, it's really interesting because I've been reading a lot about how the airlines are supplementing fossils. They're kind of combining some of the staff fuel with a regular fuel. And when I think about that, I can understand that you can maybe have a percentage with it, but if we were really, everybody's just talking about SAF, w you know, that is one element, right? Uh, many, because it's kind of like, you know, putting diesel fuel in an ethanol car engine, right. And expect it to run. I mean, it's not going to the entrance, weren't built for that. So if you have all of these sustainable fuels, whether they're organic, better crop matter, whatever, the components synthetics that they're building out for this, there's still challenges that the airlines have to do as far as the actual airlines themselves and the engines. And they're not going to just switch them out overnight. Speaker 3 00:12:07 And there's also probably that scalability that you mentioned that just because they may have identified a potential staff, it doesn't mean that it's the answer to everything and we're good to go. So I think it's what I'm hearing is that it's really, really important that we're investigating and we're investing, but it's not, and it is, we can't make it a box check. You know, we have to say what else needs to be done? You know, so when I think about that and other elements that go into the, to the airlines and aircraft, you know, we know that there's other elements of the airlines are doing as far as polymers and reducing the way too, so that they use less fuels and all of that. But when we start to monitor this and let's, let's kind of talk about how the people on this call can relate to that. So I know at TBI, we have scope three carbon offset emission, you know, data for them. Can you talk a little bit, like you mentioned earlier about the scope one, two, and three, what is the scope three and how are our listeners today going to be accessing that data? And what does that mean from the carbon dioxide emissions and offsets? Speaker 2 00:13:15 Yeah. Okay. So scope three is all, um, indirect emissions from value chain, a businesses value chain, and that's where business travel fits in. So that's, and that, and that will be all of the elements of your business travel program. Um, so it's really important to, to do whatever you can to access accurate data around your travel program, and then importantly convert it, um, to your carbon emissions, but using an accurate conversion and accurate data standards. Now there's a lot of conversations around, um, kind of generic standards that are being used. And actually, if you haven't got the most up-to-date information on things like, um, aircraft type, you know, year of make, um, yield factors, uh, weight per passenger, all of these different things, then actually you can end up calculating potentially a much higher carbon emissions output than, than you were actually, um, contributing. So it's really important to try and get that accurate data and, uh, say then, um, you know, you choose the right framework or the provider, because there are different providers within the industry. Speaker 2 00:14:29 There are different, um, proprietary algorithms that exist in terms of trying to get to the most accurate output as possible. But the really key thing is start measuring. So I have tended to say in the past, um, you know, if you can't measure it, you know, you can't manage it. Um, so it's better to measure something than nothing, but I know that there are a lot of concerns from people saying, well, actually, if I ended up with an inaccurate measurement, then that might incorrectly reflect what's happening within my program. Um, but that key spot starting point is measurement across all factors, um, you know, all aspects of your corporate travel program. And then when you, you, you mentioned all threats there. Um, I just wanted to sort of bring the carbon management hierarchy into the conversation, Randy, because I think that's a really useful tool to help people understand how they can make changes to their program. Speaker 2 00:15:19 And offsetting very much used to be kind of at the forefront of all of the conversations. Uh, stim does feature highly has its place, um, in a program, but it needs to come in last position of his car, carbon management, hiree hierarchy, which is avoid reduce, replace, and then offset, which is ruminative effectively. So removing those, um, emissions from the atmosphere. So it's all about avoiding putting the carbon emissions into the atmosphere in the first instance, uh, now, um, you know, it's uncomfortable to say, but that the most efficient way of doing that is not traveling. You know, we know we can't or not, not travel again, but actually, you know, avoid putting those, um, emissions into the atmosphere in the first place and conducting meetings like this internal and external, um, finds even technology. So that's the first piece, then it's reducing your emissions. Speaker 2 00:16:07 So do whatever you're already doing more efficiently. Um, replacing is what we just touched on. So replacing jet fuel with, um, stimulation fuel or combustion engines with electric fleet. So this is where you're replacing a high, um, um, intensive carbon energy with low carbon outfits. And then the last piece is this relief. So offsets, and that should be for your residual emissions. So that should only take place once all of those other activities within the carbon management hierarchy plan have taken place, and they really are big, impactful, transformative actions that can make a big difference. Speaker 3 00:16:48 And I think we do have things upside down, um, to your funnel, you know, because we talk about, we talk about 2030 being a, a neutral, you know, that's where we want to be neutral, right? Well, that's eight years from now. When we think about all of these things that the airlines are doing, and we know that the industry works a little slowly sometimes, and we think wow, eight years is going to be here so fast for us to be considered neutral. And that's really the offsetting. Are we investing in other things? Are we supplementing fuel or what are, you know, these are the kind of the short-term fixes, that's really the bottom as opposed to the top of our, the top, as opposed to the bottom of that, of that funnel. So when we think about neutral is probably primarily offsetting and, you know, kind of using other means to reduce the impact. What do you think the reality is of actually getting to a net zero and explain what a net zero is to everybody here so that we have the same baseline on, on, you know, glossary, the terms, if you will. Yeah. Speaker 2 00:17:49 Okay. Um, so first of all, I get the definitions of carbon neutral and net zero. Um, you know, when, when you say what's the chances of getting to net zero by 2050, I, you know, we can't afford to fail, you know, we're already, you know, um, falling behind the latest report from the IPC, which came out in, um, August said that we, the emissions need to peak by the middle of this century in order for us to stand a chance of being able to, to meet future targets. So, um, that's, I guess, you know, where the catches emotion, if you, like in a way is, you know, we, we, we can't miss these gateways. We have to make sure that we hit them. That being said, I appreciate, you know, these timelines look, you know, not look really sure or sure. When you think of, you know, the, the fleeting amount of time in the existence of the earth. Speaker 2 00:18:40 Um, so we have got at work today, but let me just read out these two definitions. So I think they're really important. So the first one is carbon neutral, which means purchasing carbon reduction credits equivalent to emissions released without the need for emissions reductions to take complex, and then net zero. It means reducing emissions in line with the latest climate science and balancing remaining residual emissions through carbon removal credits. So carbon removal credits offsets effectively. And so this is really interesting, I think, around this carbon neutrality piece. And, um, I'd just like to quote a brilliant piece actually by GDN and Chan shared from, um, a veto and he, and we can send it out to this group afterwards where you can Google it. And it was a, um, a report from the beat, which was called, why completions stop talking carbon neutrality. Um, and he was explaining essentially that there isn't a scientific framework for carbon neutrality because, um, you know, you could have two companies kind of claiming neutrality, but one could do nothing to that program and also offset everything. Speaker 2 00:19:42 So continue with the same emissions outfit, if you like into the atmosphere, but offset it all. And you can say, well, I'm carbon neutral, or you could say, I'm going to reduce the emissions in my travel program by 50% and just lost that remaining and just still carbon neutral. So you've got two very different outfits and two very different approaches in doing that. And also either we are carbon neutral as planet or we're not. So I think we just need to be really careful with some of the messaging around what that means and, and trying to take more of a planetary view, I guess, in terms of what we want to achieve rather than, um, a siloed, you know, naturally every effort as I said before is, is brilliant. And, um, the more we can all make the efforts to get to net zero, um, in line with climate science the better, but I think that's the point. We all need to be doing it in order for us all, to be able to hit the end game. Speaker 3 00:20:40 I think the word is it right. Um, and that's, I mean, if, if we had all of the answers in the world, that would be a perfect environment, right? We do know it's not just about offsetting. That's a start, it's something that needs to be done. Um, many of the airlines Delta specifically, and others are offering staff by corporate buy-in program so that corporations can participate in that. Um, so it's really good that the community is coming together. Um, I think the challenge really comes into, and some of the questions that came up in the survey were how can we better report? And are there any ways to combine, or is anything being done by GBTA, even on combining supplier reporting? And I'm just going to step in and kind of answer that question quickly because, uh, the Georgia chapter did some homework on that and there was a whole 2020 collaborative series that GBTA did, and a lot of it falls into those categories, but there's also, if you're attending the convention next month, the very first luncheon is sponsored by shell oil actually. Speaker 3 00:21:41 And there'll be a conversation specifically about active work being done now. So I wanted to kind of get back to them and all of you on that. But as far as an industry coming together from air and hospitality, it's really not aligning yet. But I think the fact that some of our listeners have brought that up to us, shows that we're, we're thinking right. And we're thinking in that direction. So let's shift a little bit into the hospitality side. That's a lot of it has to do with electricity. A lot of it has to do with waste. Every major hotel brand has their, their plan. They've got a branding against it, and some of them are meeting the marks and some of them are not, but they're reporting on it. So that is really, really good. What strikes me interesting is that global tourism amounts for like 8% of carbon emissions, that's a lot when we were saying jet fuel was only 2%, right. Tourism is 8% and there's very little work being done or that we're hearing about when it's actually their environments and their tourism that people actually come there to see. So talk to me a little bit more about what's happening with the hospitality organizations as they approach this really enormous challenge ahead of them. Speaker 2 00:23:02 Yeah. Okay. Um, and I think it's fair to say, um, I mean, all of the reporting and measuring is pretty challenging, but it makes almost aviation relatively straightforward. Doesn't it? When you start to move into the hospitality sector, because there's, at least you've got some more straightforward data points. It is still going to be complex to actually get to accurate data reporting when you start moving to the hospitality sector. Yeah. It does become quite challenging. Um, so, um, I, I'm not sure anybody's solved this, uh, conundrum in the hospitality sector, but what I do see is, um, businesses taking a sort of quite a wide view in terms of the sustainability approach, um, and bringing, um, some of the, uh, diversity equity and inclusion into this as well in terms of where they're going, where they're staying and how they are kind of investing into the communities in which they're staying. Speaker 2 00:23:58 Um, so first of all, I just wanted to sort of share with you something that came up on a relatively recent ITM event about a five point plan for the hospitality industry, which was one was procure green tea was the carbon mitigation, which is, again, this carbon management hierarchy that we've, we've spoken about. Three was waste and water management, which is really critical and particularly waste management, you know, doing away with single use plastics for was merchandising in gifting. I think that one's quite an interesting one, it's that, um, you know, when we think about waste and our impact through different activities, whether that's transient, um, hotels or whether there's more meetings and events, I think we really need to think hard about what we're leaving behind when we finish an event. Um, and, you know, bearing in mind that there is no way, um, unless it's an organic matter, there's no other way, so it might be thrown away and it might be thrown into the right recycling box, but actually does it then get recycled, you know, can be questionable. Speaker 2 00:25:00 So I think merchandising and gifting is something that, you know, people can very quickly kind of address and take out of their programs and, and gift in different ways, either digitally or, um, in investing in different ways. And then this piece around diversity equity and inclusion around sourcing venues to achieve the objectives of your D and I, um, that plan. And actually I was just speaking to, um, one of my festive Rhodes colleagues recently, and she was talking about, and she, she's amazing it, it's already crown case that anybody on the call knows her. Um, and she's very much known as the digital nomad. Um, and she does, she, she, um, you know, lives and works, um, in a, in a really inspirational way. And when she goes to work, you know, she'll spend longer periods in, in, in different parts of the world. And I appreciate that's not necessarily appropriate for everybody. Speaker 2 00:25:50 Um, but what C started doing is, um, starting to sort of invest into those local communities. So when she goes somewhere, she might offer to either spend time in your local school or, you know, do share, do a knowledge, share of a certain skill with the, that she may have. So you'll kind of actually giving something back to that community. And also she tries to spend a bit more locally, you know, I know that's maybe starts as a black tip into the tourism side, but even from a corporate side, we can think about, you know, how we are supporting the very economy as well and the local economy in which we're spending time in. So that's a, it's quite a broad one. Um, I just wanted to share as well, um, a couple of initiatives, uh, that the people, if they're not aware of the particular CA um, one is, will, these are both actually from the sustainability hospitality Alliance, what is the carbon hotel carbon measurement initiative? And the other one is the hotel water measurement initiative. And this is where properties can voluntarily sign up and start disclosing their carbon footprints. Um, and I was reading recently actually, um, Mark Avery, the UK, uh, global manager for PWC. He was saying in their program, they ask people to respond, whether they have what they haven't signed up to this initiative. So when certain data isn't readily available, there are other ways of encouraging your partners to, um, measure or disclose, uh, their environmental impact, uh, to help you know, that they are actually taking some action. Speaker 3 00:27:32 Okay, well that is, that is awesome. Um, and I, I know that there's so much, so much information and we put the link to that side out, um, on the Georgia chapter website. So that's one of the resources to do some investigations on, you know, I mean, it, it, it's important that we measure it, uh, to your point, and we're partnering with the companies that are focusing on this as well. You know, so, you know, it's not just a box check again in an, in a hotel RFP, if there are things that you definitely care about that you want to monitor and you want to manage it, you can report back on that's. What is important? Are they members of certain organizations? So for example, a practical opportunity here, I'm gonna put you on the spot. Helen is if you were doing a hotel RFP, what would be a question or two questions that you might put other than, do you have a sustainability program? I mean, how can you start finding fine tuning things to make, make a difference? Speaker 2 00:28:24 Yeah, so, um, at our very first cactus meeting that we held back in 2019 in November, we had a presentation from CDP, which is the carbon disclosure project. Um, and they gave two brilliant pieces of advice, um, which, um, I can share with you now. So in your RFP, um, two really simple things you can say is, um, have you signed up for science-based targets? Yes or no. And a science-based target is essentially, um, backed into the science of the Paris agreement. So if a company has signed up to that, then they are aligning their carbon reduction ambitions to the Paris agreement and therefore net zero in 2050. So that's a simple, yes, no. Um, and then the other one is, um, do you disclose, so in this case, it's, you disclosed it to CDP and essentially disclosing is disclosing your environmental impact in terms of the, um, what your business does and the, the, the impact on the environment. Speaker 2 00:29:27 Um, and in particular, there is a climate change questionnaire, and I've seen, um, I can reference, please. Actually, I know that in their environmental, social and governance, governance reports, they have set a target to make sure that a percentage of their suppliers are completing the climate change. Um, the questionnaire as part of the CDP disclosure, and what that means is you declare, um, what you will doing. So your intention, and then the actual actions in terms of what you're doing as business, um, to, uh, so that people can see your impact on climate change, water security and deforestation. So I know that's what we're a little bit removed from, from the travel program. If you are looking to point suppliers within your travel program, those two questions are really important because you, you know, obviously depending on how they answer, you will know how, how committed they are already within their own organization in order to make a change. And I think disclosure is something that's going to be more and more key because, um, people will expect to see that either as consumers, shareholders, investors, to know that the business they are buying from working with investing in is making the right changes. So that's pretty key. Speaker 3 00:30:46 And I think there's also communication to the travelers, right? So we have chosen these partners for these reasons and really highlight the importance of sustainability that you actually sourced a viable partner. It's making a difference because it's important as part of the culture of your corporation, potentially, um, corporations are moving beyond that. Yes, we need to do something too. All right. Let's start laying out a five-year plan, a ten-year plan. And, and it's important that the travel divisions play an active part in that. So having access to that, that data access to those numbers, it's, it starts, you know, with identifying sourcing appropriately and that your partners are sourcing appropriately sourcing locally buying locally, um, that tank water program. Right. Speaker 2 00:31:31 So you're absolutely right. And that supply chain ripples. So we're going to, if we go back to scope one, two, and three initials, and actually a lot of your relations are going to be in that scope three, that supplied pain engagement is really, really important and really powerful. Um, and also to your point about, you know, um, it's important to the Travis as well. I think what we're seeing is, you know, you have a top down, um, uh, ambition and obligation from corporations. So they, they have to, and want to set carbon emission reduction targets in order to, um, um, 20, 50 net zero and preferably before. But you've also got a huge, huge interest from that trapping population now, because I mean, personally for me, and one of the reasons, um, you know, I was one of the co-founders in cactus is because I could see it was important within our sector, but it means a lot to me personally. Speaker 2 00:32:27 And I said, it's not really a joke. I sort of joke with people saying, I do suffer from eco anxiety. Does trouble mean I can't. I find the watching the destruction of our natural environment, which is essential to balancing climate change in a really quite uncomfortable. And therefore, you know, you will have lots of your traveling population that feel that way too. So there's, there's this blending really of, you know, what they want to do from an employee perspective, what they want to and what they have to do from an employee perspective, overlaid with their own personal concerns. And I, I think it's very difficult to separate to now Speaker 3 00:33:05 You had mentioned that, you know, we had some takeaways, you know, the top three or whatever you best practice next steps that you're leaving here today. Cause we're going to provide you with a ton of resources. Yes. Um, cactus.earth is the website, follow them, follow TEI, what can they do when they leave this call? Speaker 2 00:33:23 Okay. So first of all, I would say, um, I'm going to condense some of these because I want to make sure I can include as many really, but first of all, engage with your ESG team, your environmental, social, and governance team. So, you know, they will, um, very likely be, uh, taking action from a corporation perspective, but see where you can fit in from a travel management perspective. And actually depending on the type of, um, you know, the sector that you're in, um, you know, the travel manager role can be really strategic and influential, you know, particularly where you, uh, program accounts for a significant amount of carbon emissions. You know, you deserve a seat at the table, so certainly engaged with your ESG team. Um, the piece I just mentioned, um, around, um, disclosure. So with CDP, so whether your partners are disclosing and whether they've got the setting a science-based targets, um, naturally find out if you're measuring your CO2 emissions, if not, um, start that journey. Speaker 2 00:34:28 And then the other thing which we, um, I guess didn't really touch on, um, in a way apart from, in the carbon management hierarchy around sort of like that demand generation is actually looking at your overall travel program. So rather than, or as well as looking at, you know, some of the specific elements around, you know, hotels will sustainable aviation fuel at your entire program, then you can really understand the types of travel that you're doing and you know, what should be going back into your program as travel starts to resume. And so, um, the festive road, um, we've created the personal travel model and that's a resource that is really beneficial to help businesses understand the value of their travel through a number of different lenses. And then that helps you to turn in what travel needs to take place and, and what should stay online effectively. It's kind of like a zoom versus in the room type scenario. Um, so, um, you know, information exchange and very happy to take place, um, electronically and digitally. And then there are other functions and other meetings that may need to take place. Um, face-to-face but actually making sure that you have purpose within your travel program, that is another, um, essential, um, element to address. So that's, uh, you know, you can be really sure on the type of travel you paying back into your program as we stopped to conduct. Speaker 3 00:35:49 Yeah. I really liked that, um, topic, purposeful travel. I mean, we're all in the business, we're all in a corporate travel business. Um, and we all know that there's challenges in this industry, but, um, when you think of the travel is purposeful travel, where are you going to have the highest return on investment for that travel? Is it, is it, are you able to expand and see multiple folks, all of the normal things that you would think about, but are you really asking any you and your, your managers of all your different divisions? You know, let's talk about where we as a company are going to gain the most from and how we can make the most out of those trips and really focus on that purposeful travel so that we get the most out of it. I think, I think that's really key to, uh, as we all get back into the lifestyle of the travel and famous, we actually all do really miss, but, uh, there there's appropriateness that needs to be put in thoughtfulness. That needs to be part of that decision. Speaker 2 00:36:47 Yeah. Nothing. Speaker 3 00:36:48 All right. Well, I am going to just ask, is there any closing warrants Helen that you'd like to make? I think this was a really exciting discussion. I'm thrilled have been part of it and to have this time with you, as I'm sure those on the webinar on are as well. What are some of your closing thoughts and encouragement? Speaker 2 00:37:06 Yeah, so, um, I think I would just say it is complicated. Um, nobody has all the answers. Um, don't be afraid to ask the questions though, and actually, um, get involved and try and make a difference. You know, there are, you may find, you know, that, that you may be really strategic and influential within your professional role or, um, if that's not the case, you know, you can still have influence within your business and then on a personal level as well are a number of different things you can do, just take action and, and kind of, um, yeah, do something we're short on time. We've got a big job ahead of us. Um, but there's, you know, we, we need to, to protect the planet for future generations to come. Um, and don't let the size of the task put you off, Speaker 3 00:37:51 Right. It is urgent and that's, what's part of cactus, right. And it's certainly part of travel, Inc. Um, I just wanted to have huge, thanks again to the Georgia chapter for the platform, for us to have this really candid, prickly discussion from all of us here, Speaker 1 00:38:04 Travel incorporated. Thank you so much, Helen. And to all of you for joining us, if you would like to learn more about travel incorporated or how we can assist you as you commence an active engagement to build out your sustainability travel program, visit us on our website at www dot, traveling.com or follow us on our social channels. We appreciate your listening and as always, we appreciate your business.